An account of my Y-DNA Testing Strategy to Increase my Markers to 111

Note from William:

The current turmoil created by’s decision to no longer conduct or support y-DNA testing has led to considerable confusion.

For myself and others whose previous y-DNA tests have indicated that we share a Recent Common Ancestor in our male lineage, and who have wished to pursue additional y-DNA testing, it appeared to be a difficult problem in determining what course of action to pursue.

Therefore, I was pleased that my correspondent from Ottawa compared the y-DNA  I posted previously on this site, for members of the Burnett (descended from Saunders), Kerley and Crump families, with his own y-DNA values and determined a probable relationship, for which additional research is warranted.

I subsequently provided him with all the y-DNA values that from my own test. After his comparison, he provided me with the following suggestions as how to proceed.

“For the DNA test, only one male need to be tested as the paternal Y-DNA ancestral markers got passed down from father to son, son and so on. So all male Burnetts [note from William-that is, Bedford County, Virginia Burnetts determined to be descended from a person surnamed Saunders]  have it.

“One can be tested and all relatives share the costs & results. If you decide to do it, increase your ancestral markers to 111 (FTDNA US$ 389 full testing but if they accept what has been at for a small charge, then increase from 67 to 111) and include these two tests one called SNP Backbone panel test to confirm that you are in HP I, and the second the SNP subclade to confirm that you are in HP I 1 or HP I 2.

“I do not know the cost at FTDNA for these SNP tests but I would think under US$100. This subclade HP I1 has 6 further sub-groups not all yet defined as 4 studies are underway in 4 Scandinavian countries ( Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway).

“These studies are being done by FamilyTreeDNA and Genebase. I checked my markers against the 6 sub-group and mine don’t fit in any of them. So my HP I1*. The star indicate undetermined. To be part of HP I, you have to test positive at two SNP Location subclade M258 (mutation from T>C), and M253 (mutation C>T) or to have DYS455=8, DYS462=12 which you have. To be in HP I1-uN (which is Ultra-Norse mostly Norwigian & Icelandic people), you need to have DYS511=9.

“There is a possibility that FTDNA may be ahead of Genebase and may offer sub-subclade tests. I am saying this because FTDNA test for 111 ancestral markers whereas Genebase offer test for only 91 markers and none for sub-subclade 1*

“Now that I have group[ed] together all our markers, we have 14 genetic distance because we have 14 markers that are different. Check the spreadsheet. This mean that your family origin into Ireland, Scotland, England, and British Isles may have taken place in 4 different ways: 1) First raid by the Vikings from Scandinavia (Norwigian or Danes) in the 5th or 6th centuries, 2) The Viking (Norwigian) invasion that started from year 841, 3) Norman Vikings that conquered and settled in England in year 1066, 4) immigration from France or Norway in the 16th century.

“M___ G___”

William’s Thoughts on Opinion of Ottawa Correspondent

Those of us who are descended from Virginia families that arrived in the colony in the 17th century, from my knowledge of English and of Virginia history, are very likely descended from – either through our paternal or maternal lines – from Norsemen in one of the first three groups that the Ottawa Correspondent identifies: first raids of 5th/6th century, Norwegian raids 9th century, or Norman invasion of 11th century.

Historically, the settlement of Virginia is most likely comprised in the majority by the Norman invasion. This group dominated the ruling class in England from the 11th century through the 16th, and through much of the 17th.

I think it is iless likely that there is a historical case of Norwegians or French Normans arriving in England in the 16th century, who then migrated to Virginia.

We’ll see what the more extensive DNA testing shows (or suggests).

Follow-up activities by William on FTDNA test:

Subsequently, I contacted Family Tree DNA and determined that they had a process (for a modest fee) where the values from my y-DNA test can be entered into their data base. I’ve paid for that service, as part of a larger plan to obtain the 111 marker test.

Receipt of DNA Testing Kit:

Only a couple of days after I had ordered the Family Tree DNA, the kit arrived. I did the cheek swabs and mailed the swabs as instructed back to Family Tree DNA on Saturday, July 12th.

Follow-up with FTDNA Testing Kit Results and Data Transfer

Because the y-dna test was a 46-marker test and I have been advised to take the 111-marker test, I thought it would be useful to let others know how FTDNA follows through.

First, an electronic form was provided me to enter the values (with the warning not to make any mistakes). These transfer values were accepted by FTDNA.

Second, I had to provide proof that these were the actual values recorded by  Downloarding the results from their website (displaying’s logo) as a .jpg met this requirement.

Third, a few days later, the swabs produced three rows of my initial results (totalling 37 markers) which are accessible to me on the FTDNA website under my Kit #. Interestingly, their results differed from’s results, especially on DYS442, which equalled 12 on FTDNA and 17 (a value apparently unprecedented in all human y-DNA research) on Ancestry. FTDNA appears to have substituted their own calculated DYS442 value into their table of the “transferred” values from

[Without knowledge of how calculated the DYS442 value, I am tentatively guessing that at some point in the process, somone recorded the number “12” for that value in handwritten form, and then that person or another person misread the “2” and recorded a “7” instead. Since Ancestry appears to be getting out of the y-DNA testing totally, I may never know.]

Subsequently, I’ve ordered the 111-marker test. Because I transferred data from Ancestry, there is a (rather substantial) discount. However, to obtain the discount, I used their 800 number rather than their website, since their website seems not to be programmed to calculate the discount as part of the 111-marker fee.

For others interested in this process, feel free to contact me at 


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